Expert Food Packaging Design with DePersico Creative [Food and Beverage Marketing – Part 2]

Does food packaging design really matter? In this episode, we explore the world of packaging in marketing food and beverage products with James and Paul from DePersico Creative. We discuss on-package messaging, brand positioning, design considerations, getting products on store shelves, and more!

Through their expertise and insightful examples, we highlight the importance of effective packaging in capturing consumers’ attention and driving product success.

Want more niche marketing insights on Food and Beverage Marketing?

This episode is Part 2 in a multi-part series on how to market food product marketing and sales. To continue learning on this niche, visit:

And for a detailed resource guide on how to market a food or beverage brand, bookmark this step-by-step expert advice here:

  • How to Market a Food Product | The Ultimate Resource Guide (coming soon!)

Watch the Podcast Interview on Expert Food Packaging Design:

This episode on food packaging design and positioning covers all of the following and more:

Note: These timestamps correspond to the video version of the episode

00:00 – Introduction to Packaging: Importance and Expertise of DePersico Agency

  • Packaging insights from father and son duo, James and Paul, in a multi-generational creative agency who’ve been around for 46 years, DePersico Creative, located in Haddonfield, New Jersey.
  • Topics to be covered are on-package messaging, brand advocacy, brand positioning, and best practices for positioning lines on packaging.
  • James and Paul are all about food. They get people’s attention to try products from the shelves based on their packaging.
  • Discover how they balance design and product quality, inspire trial through packaging, and the story behind a product that could have been a hit.

01:58 Introducing our guests and setting the stage.

  • Joining us today, we also have Steven Picanza, for an in-depth background in branding, design, and creative messaging.
  • DePersico Creative started in 1977 then became incorporated, Paul bought the business and eventually James joined.

04:43 The creative family and the next generation of the agency.

  • Helping clients to develop products by adding ingredients or standing out on the shelves.
  • Trying different products and giving it feedback to improve the taste and flavors. Once a product hits the shelves, it has to grab consumer’s attention by its packaging and the story it creates.
  • Helping clients to also hit the first sale and then it’s on the product to repeat purchase from consumers.
  • Thus trying the product first and really liking it will help with branding and marketing for it.
  • As an example, Yummy Health, a snack product that could not claim itself as being healthy and therefore could not market as such due to the strict regulation on health foods.

08:39 What aspiring food and beverage brands need to provide.

  • The main goal for food products is to get on the shelves, but the packaging design is the last stage.

09:22 Understanding the importance of product knowledge and goals

  • Clear understanding of the product and goals for the product is important.
  • Then positioning of the product and how to present it to consumers. What message are you trying to convey? What’s special about the product?
  • Focus on what separates your products from other competitors. If your product is unique, then speak to the product’s uniqueness.
  • Presenting information on the packaging on how to consume the product with words or pictures.

12:22 Collaborating with brands to develop product positioning

  • Telling a story with package design and positioning on the shelves.
  • Following eye flow, from top to bottom, left to right.
  • An example of Chef Henry, seasoning product, name on the brand would entice consumers to try.

15:10 Differentiating from competitors and catching consumers’ attention

  • The purpose of packing design is to persuade consumers to think and eventually have consumers try the product.

18:33 Pathos, Logos, and Ethos: Appeals in Package Design

  • Appealing to consumer’s pathos by providing hope that can expand to the story behind the product.
  • Logos appeal to consumer’s practicality and functional messaging.
  • Ethos establishes reliability and credibility of a product.

20:38 Understanding Client Goals and Brand Persona

  • What is your brand persona? How are you conveying it on the package?
  • There are different ways to design the product so that it can be positioned optimally on the shelf, this includes the logo and the language placed on the package.

23:54 Importance of Messaging and Identity in Package Design

  • Name of the product should be used to describe the product and it is important to also know the target consumer for marketing.
  • Although logo and slogan can help capture consumer’s attention, positioning of a well packaged product will be as effective.
  • A logo that can communicate to the consumer at a glance by having distinctive color schemes and fonts.

28:40 This Episode is Brought to You by The Agency Guide (TAG)

  • TAG helps matchmake brands with proven, vetted marketing professionals.
  • Consulting is pro bono!
  • Visit to learn more.

29:45 Importance of Identity in Logo and Package Design

  • Logo design used to be done in isolation. Package design is now done around a logo.
  • The identity of the product is in the logo and the package design.

37:06 The Importance of Appealing Store Shelves

  • Stores care for their aesthetic. Not only does your product have to look good alone but it has to be able to look good with the other products that are already in the store.

40:28 Success Story: How a Design Change Led to Increased Shelf Space

  • Communicating via a sell sheet where the product and product packaging is being showcased.
  • Use concise language and tell a story of why the product would appeal to consumers.

42:44 Tips for Appealing to Buyers on Sell Sheets

  • Identify the demographics and use what is trending!
  • Appeal to the store to increase its aesthetics.

45:04 Enhancing the Packaging to Make It Special

  • Give a little flair to the product package, an example of a cross slice of a pastry to appeal to show what they are expecting to get and to stand out from the other pastries around.
  • Personality of the baker on the package can also help to appeal to consumers.

47:39 Successful positioning of Bimbo Bakeries’ Burger First in Canada

Packaging story of Bimbo Bakery in Canada that rivals Bimbo in the U.S.
Advertising on the category, new shape, and answering what people are looking for.

50:00 Huge success: 89 million to 250 million in sales

  • By changing the language on the packaging, it was successful from the East Coast to West Coast.
  • Contact DePersico as they can help with product design and copywriting of the product.

52:18 Importance of Owner-Operator Account Management Model

  • Owner-operator account management model makes a massive difference in customer satisfaction and ultimately the output.

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Expert Food Packaging Design with DePersico Creative

Tweetables for this “Food Packaging Design” Episode:

  • See the world of packaging design with DePersico Creative – where every detail matters.
  • Discover the secret behind successful product packaging – it’s more than just a pretty design or is it?
  • From concept to shelf, packaging can make or break a product’s success.
  • Packaging isn’t just about aesthetics – it’s about telling a compelling story that sells.

About Host John Bertino and TAG:

A decade spent working for marketing agencies was more than enough to know that there are too many bad agencies and not enough objective marketers within them. John launched TAG in 2014 with the mission to provide brands unbiased guidance from seasoned marketing professionals at little or no cost.

TAG advises brands on marketing channel selection, resource allocation, and agency selection to ensure brands invest in the right marketing strategies, with the right expectations, and (ultimately) with the right partners.

TAG represents 200+ well-vetted agencies and consultants across the United States and Europe.

John’s professional background and areas of expertise include: Marketing Planning, Earned Media, SEO, Content Marketing, Link Acquisition, Digital PR, Thought Leadership, and B2B Lead Generation.

TAG Testimonials

About Our Guest Experts

Paul DePersico: CEO/Creative Strategist (a.k.a. The Cruisin’ Chef)

Paul spends every Saturday shopping for innovative new foods. Loves cooking for family & friends to experiment with unique creations.

James DePersico: Vice President (a.k.a. The Wizard of Words)

Passionate about words and believes language to be the most powerful tool humans have. Values clarity of communication in the workplace and life, and strives to achieve it always.

DePersico Creative

DePersico Creative has been leveraging their passion for food and unrivaled creativity to help grow food and beverage brands since 1977.

DePersico Creative elevates and magnifies the unique aspects of their client’s product through compelling package design. Their combination of product positioning, creative linguistics, and strategic color, photography, and font choices help to visually sell their client’s product as the most desirable in its category.

They prove how their expertise and creative strategies positively impact sales through every project, whether it’s for a startup brand or a major player in the food and beverage industry.

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Transcripts of Food Packaging Design and Positioning Strategies with Paul and James DePersico [Food and Beverage Marketing – Part 2]


This transcript (of the video version of this episode) has been provided to assist you in finding extra information specific to your needs and goals. We have not edited it line by line for grammar, spelling, punctuation, or spacing. Please forgive errors. Feedback welcomed at


James and Paul from DePersico discuss the importance of packaging in marketing food and beverage products, covering on-package messaging, brand positioning, design considerations, and getting products on store shelves.


  • 0:00:00 Introduction to Packaging: Importance and Expertise of DePersico Agency
  • 0:01:58 Introducing our guests and setting the stage.
  • 0:04:43 The creative family and the next generation of the agency.
  • 0:08:39 What aspiring food and beverage brands need to provide.
  • 0:09:22 Understanding the importance of product knowledge and goals
  • 0:12:22 Collaborating with brands to develop product positioning
  • 0:15:10 Differentiating from competitors and catching consumers’ attention
  • 0:18:33 Pathos, Logos, and Ethos: Appeals in Package Design
  • 0:20:38 Understanding Client Goals and Brand Persona
  • 0:23:54 Importance of Messaging and Identity in Package Design
  • 0:29:45 Importance of Identity in Logo and Package Design
  • 0:37:06 The Importance of Appealing Store Shelves
  • 0:40:28 Success Story: How a Design Change Led to Increased Shelf Space
  • 0:42:44 Tips for Appealing to Buyers on Sell Sheets
  • 0:45:04 Enhancing the Packaging to Make It Special
  • 0:47:39 Successful positioning of Bimbo Bakeries’ Burger First in Canada
  • 0:50:00 Huge success: 89 million to 250 million in sales
  • 0:52:18 Importance of Owner-Operator Account Management Model

Long Summary 

In this episode, we dive into the fascinating world of packaging in marketing food and beverage products. We start off by acknowledging that packaging has been a recurring theme in previous interviews with industry experts. To provide our listeners with the best insights, we have invited James and Paul, the father and son duo behind DePersico, a creative agency with an impressive 46 years of experience in packaging design.

The conversation covers a range of topics, including case studies and before-and-after projects. We delve into the intricacies of on-package messaging, making claims on packaging, brand advocacy, brand positioning, and positioning lines on packaging. We also explore how human psychology and philosophy can inform persuasive messaging.

To add even more expertise to the discussion, we introduce our co-host, Steven Picanza, who brings his branding and creative messaging insights to the conversation. James and Paul share the history of their family business, which began back in 1977 and has grown over the years with multiple family members joining the team. They emphasize their love for food and how this passion has driven their success in the food and beverage industry.

One of the significant advantages they highlight is being able to try the products themselves and provide valuable feedback on taste and flavors. They stress the importance of inspiring trial for their clients’ products by creating attractive packaging that tells a story. However, they also emphasize that a product’s success ultimately depends on its quality and ability to generate repeat purchases and loyal customers.

Drawing from their extensive experience, James and Paul discuss the importance of positioning and knowing the product well before diving into packaging design. They explain that effective packaging should communicate the product and brand to consumers, incorporating unique selling propositions and reasons to believe in the product’s quality and credibility.

The conversation also touches on the significance of audience persona in branding. They provide examples of how different positioning strategies can target specific demographics, such as appealing to the alpha male demographic with a brand like Kraken yogurt. Furthermore, they discuss the success of brands like Liquid Death, which have taken a counterintuitive approach to branding.

In terms of design, James and Paul advocate for developing the brand’s identity and package design together as a cohesive whole. They emphasize the importance of creating package designs that align with the brand’s identity without compromising creativity. They also discuss the role of trend analysis in the industry and how staying aware of current trends allows them to incorporate relevant ideas into their designs.

Moving on to the topic of getting products on store shelves, they provide valuable advice and discuss the significance of an effective sell sheet. They explain that stores prioritize the appearance of their shelves and look for products that are visually appealing. They share an example of how improving the packaging design resulted in a client’s products being stocked on shelves, leading to significant success.

In summary, this engaging conversation on packaging in marketing food and beverage products covers a wide range of topics, including on-package messaging, brand positioning, design considerations, and getting products on store shelves. Through their expertise and insightful examples, James and Paul from DePersico Creative highlight the importance of effective packaging in capturing consumers’ attention and driving product success.

Brief Summary 

In this episode, we explore the world of packaging in marketing food and beverage products with James and Paul from DePersico. We discuss on-package messaging, brand positioning, design considerations, and getting products on store shelves. Through their expertise, we understand the importance of effective packaging in capturing attention and driving product success.


episode, explore, world, packaging, marketing, food, beverage products, James, Paul, DePersico, on package messaging, brand positioning, design considerations, store shelves, expertise, importance, effective packaging, attention, driving product success


Introduction to Packaging: Importance and Expertise of DePersico Agency 


Whether you knew it or not, you just landed on episode two of a multi-episode series all about marketing food and beverage products, and in this installment, we’ll be talking about packaging.

Throughout the numerous interviews I’ve done with career food and beverage marketing experts, packaging, unsurprisingly, came up over and over again.

So, to make sure we got you the absolute best advice on the subject, we brought the father and son duo behind the multi-generational creative agency, DePersico, into our own studio in Haddonfield, New Jersey.

After 46 years, 46 years in the business, these guys know packaging.

So, in addition to walking through some case studies, demonstrating before and after projects, the team at DePersico are going to share some incredible insights with you.

We’re going to cover things like how to keep your on-package messaging as concise yet effective as possible, some insights on the do’s and don’ts of making certain claims on packaging, brand advocacy, brand positioning, and best practices for positioning lines on packaging, what human psychology and philosophy can teach us about persuasive messaging.

I know Mr. Aurelius would be into hearing about that, and what a 45-year-old packaging agency has to say about getting onto the the shelves of retailers.


Who would know better than these guys? Partial spoiler alert, has a lot to do with effective sell sheets.

Are you stoked for episode two of our food and beverage product marketing series?

Do you want more amazing niche content just like this?

I know you do. Then you know what to do. Smash that like button, hit subscribe, don’t forget to comment, and get ready for this next installment of the Niche Marketing Podcast with the Persico Creative in Philadelphia.

Introducing our guests and setting the stage. 



And we’re back with another episode of the Niche Marketing Podcast. I’m so delighted to have our guests in from just over the bridge in Philadelphia.

Where are you guys? Where are you guys from in Philly? Westchester. Yeah, Westchester. So right between Philadelphia and Lancaster, midway point.

Fantastic. And we have James and Paul from DePersico. DePersico. DePersico Creative. Right pronunciation, wrong emphasis. Yeah. Okay. Very close.

And we’re stoked to have you. We have, You guys are going to be part of our Food and Beverage Experts Marketing Series.

And you guys eat, sleep, and breathe packaging design. Yep. And today is also our first episode with a co-host.

We have my colleague, Steven Picanza, also in the mix today. Steven, welcome to the show. Oh, thanks for having me. Look at us on this side of the table. Actually, we’re on opposite sides, but now we’re on the same side.


I’m digging it. It feels good, man. Yeah, thanks for the invite. Yeah, glad to have you here. And since we’re going to be talking about packaging design today, you know, Steven has an in-depth background in the area of branding, design, creative messaging, and so really couldn’t do the episode without you.

I appreciate it. Let’s go. All right. So James, Paul, again, excited to have you guys. Could you tell us a little bit about how you got started? I know it’s a family business and it goes back some ways.

Yeah, yeah. We were incorporated in 1977, but the business was actually started by my grandparents even before that, just like out of their house.

But Paul can really speak to the early days of the business because I was, you know, much later. You’re a wee lad.


1977, we incorporated, rented a place, kind of grew after that. My wife signed on in the business. You know, we were married, you know, a year or two later.


And, you know, we’ve had my mother worked in business, my sister, lots of them. And uh anyway it’s uh it’s been a long road in 1989 uh my parents retired from the business I bought the business from them and uh and then James started I don’t know 10 years ago or something yeah probably about 10 years ago right out of college as I was in my last year of college we have my sister also works in uh she’s creative we’re a creative family we all like food uh our chief designer is uh my nephew or son and uh who just had a baby so shout out to nick, he’s on paternity leave right now yeah very excited yes they actually just moved into their house last week and then had a baby this week wow is that the next generation of the agency right there yeah i think it’s the next generation well the generation after that yeah hopefully so uh.

The creative family and the next generation of the agency. 


That’s about it. I mean, that’s our history of getting started. We’ve always been food and beverage. We love food. We’re big foodies. James and I are both cooks or chefs in our own right. Awesome. That makes four of us. Yeah. Great. Yeah. We’re big foodies. We help develop a lot of like when people come to us, they say, I have a new product I want to develop. Can you help me?

And a lot of times we get in there and it’s like product, you know, comparing it to the other tastes in the market. You need a little more hit here. You need a little more of this. first step is always try the product because it’s something that you know it’s fun working in food and beverage because we can do that and we can try the product it’s not like you know if we were doing package design for like women’s razor blades or something like that it’s like well we’re not you know maybe we could try it I don’t know if I’m gonna get the same kind of thing but if it’s like a pizza or a barbecue sauce or something you’re all in yeah absolutely I would eat it for a couple of meals and then give them some feedback and say you know maybe you could sweeten this up or maybe you could make it a little spicier or something like that yeah we usually try to coach them because we basically what we do well and what we’re known for is we get people to try the product when it goes on the shelf it’s we inspire trial yeah so they see stuff on us and people first it catches their attention and then it creates by looking at the package and having the package tell a story it creates that desire to try it after they try it it’s all on and the packaging helps for some, but it’s really the product is going to.


Fail or succeed if people come back and become loyal users tell their friends about it use it buy it yeah that’s what we always tell clients is that we’ll get you the first sale and then it’s on your product to be good enough to get all the repeat purchases and that makes a lot of sense there’s little sense in us designing a really great package get that first sale and it never gets sold again that come that brand will never grow we’ll never do more business yeah then it makes us look bad because then it’s like oh the product ended up failing and it’s not our fault just because the product wasn’t good enough.

So, we always try the product, try to, if it’s not, if we don’t feel like it’s where it needs to be, help them refine it. And then once it’s in a place where we’re like, now, if we do a really good job on this package, this is really going to take off.

That’s always, you know, where we want to be. Yeah, we really don’t want to waste anybody’s time and money on a product that’s not, that we know when we taste it is not going to succeed in the marketplace.

Have you worked with products that you loved and that you got the trial, but then it’s still flopped because of bad marketing or bad customer experience. Well, not… I can’t think of anything. I mean, people have retired and given up on making it.


Yeah, exactly. That’s what I was going to point out. There was one product that we actually have an example of here that’s called Yummy Health. The brand was called Yummy Health, which is a great brand name because with food, there are so many regulations on what you can, what claims you can make.

Like the word healthy or health good for your health or anything like that is so regulated that you really can’t put it on things like you for using yeah like maybe if you were selling like straight raw broccoli maybe you could get away with it but like but this is a like a snack product so you certainly could not put health on there but kind of the loophole if it’s part of your registered brand name yeah, then you’re okay. You can put it on there.

So, they got away with the brand name Yummy Health, which was great.


But the problem with that was that was a company that was kind of like a pet project of the wife of like a very wealthy lawyer.

And then she went through the whole process of designing it. And then she kind of was like, I’m on to my next pet project and then gave up on it. It had no funding and then disappeared, which is a shame because it really could have been and successful. It was a cool product.

So, that happens. Other than situations like that. When we design something, we know it’s going to taste good, that it’s going to be able to compete in the marketplace.

They don’t fail. Your instincts are pretty good in that regard. So, let’s take a couple steps back and start from the beginning.

What aspiring food and beverage brands need to provide. 


If I’m an aspiring food and beverage brand, I’ve got a consumer product good, and I want to get it on the shelves. Before we even talk about successfully getting on its shelves, which I know is its own challenge for sure, perhaps the biggest challenge.

What do you guys need from me or my team to do what you do? I mean, and to be clear for the audience, you guys specialize in specifically the packaging part of things.

So, for you to do your job. It’s kind of like, here’s a little slide that has, there’s five core things that you have to do. Perfect. And this is the right order.

So, you see the package design is actually the last stage. Yeah. Yeah. So, kind of the thing that our clients need to come to us with is.

Understanding the importance of product knowledge and goals 


Basically just, they need to know their product and they need to know what their goals for it are. And then we can basically help them from there because the very first thing that they need to, they need the actual product, but once they have that, then the first thing you need that kind of starts as the foundation for everything is your positioning.

So, how you want to present yourself self to a consumer. So, we often think of the first couple of stages as positioning, which is.


What you want your consumer to understand about your product and your brand and then your creative strategy which is how we’re then going to convey that message positioning is what’s your unique selling proposition how are you special how are you better yeah if you’re a barbecue sauce, there’s a lot of barbecue sauces out there what makes you special are you know are you smoky are you from a really old-school southern tradition are you know a mustard-based sauce, which is combining honey and mustard and ketchup in a way that’s unique and not something else out there in the market.

So we always want to kind of focus in on how are you going to differentiate yourself amongst a sea of competitors? Because there’s so much out there that you’re usually entering a pretty competitive space, no matter what product you have.

We’ve worked with a couple of clients where their product is so unique that the challenge is not differentiating yourself from your competitors, it’s saying, look, this is, this is what I am because my product is so unique.

We have another example in this, uh, in this deck, if we get to it of something that’s totally radical. And that was more of a situation where we had to explain to people what even this is, but most of the part of, of educating, right? Exactly.

Yeah. And how it was, it is a product where you kind of had to take a couple of steps before it was edible. edible.


So, you really couldn’t eat it right out of the tin, but it was sold along, you know, next to cream cheeses and things like that. But if you tried to use it like a cream cheese, it would really be pretty undesirable. Um, so you had to take a couple of steps.

So, it was a, the tricky thing was getting enough information onto the face of the package that people could get an idea of, don’t just, don’t put a scoop of this on your piece of toast and just eat it straight up because it’s really gonna be an unpleasant experience.

You have to, you had to spread it onto your toast and then melt that like in a toaster oven or something like that.

And then it was really phenomenal, but we had to get that across on the package.

So that’s kind of an unusual case, but most of the time it’s a product that people are already familiar with, like a seasoning, you know, a spice blend or something like that.

So how do you differentiate yourself amongst McCormick’s and Durkee’s and all the big spice brands? We have another slide in here that’s of spices and kind of how we did that and how we differentiated those and made them really unique.

You want to pull that up while we… And are you guys creating, or is the brand usually coming with an idea of the product positioning, or you make recommendations?

Collaborating with brands to develop product positioning 


It all varies. It varies, yeah. Some have a pretty good positioning in mind.

Some have a really good product and a really terrible positioning.


So we got Flickr. We’ve got Flickr. And are you oftentimes like adding on like reasons to believe onto the packaging as well, like to strengthen that positioning?

Yeah. So that package has to kind of basically, you’re going to tell a story with the package design. It’s going to leave people with a certain feeling, you know, that desire to try, but it needs to tell a story and it has to be in the right order and has to flow.

So many times you’ll see packaging and you got something in this corner, something in that, that shit down here, you know, it’s all over the place like, little islands you need it an eye flow where it’s just going to be gracefully your eye goes top to bottom left to right and so this is one that has a lot of information on because there’s nothing to show in seasoning so this is this is an example of kind of what we were talking about as far as like a really crowded market seasonings and how do we want to differentiate uh some of that reason to believe that you talked about uh steven was you know for example just a little thing like Like, all of these, we have it labeled by Chef Henry.

Yeah. So, like, immediately, you’re already thinking, like, okay, so this is put together by someone who kind of knows what they’re talking about.

These are seasonings developed by a chef. And then one of the things that we noticed was kind of lacking in a lot of the seasoning space was a lot of seasonings tell you.


They are, but not really give any kind of flair or give any kind of details on when you want to use me or anything like that.

So, you know, if you look at something and it says like lemon pepper seasoning, your kind of is like, okay, well, I guess I could put lemon pepper seasoning on chicken maybe. And yeah. And maybe their hand a little bit and show them the way we want to.

Yeah. So we gave these some, some additional information, you know, this unique seasoning and herb blend gives meats a mouthwatering savory taste everyone loves yeah just to like oh okay this is it becomes a no-brainer like savage seasoning like if i want to get a little savage tonight like I’m gonna you know let’s get vicious I’m gonna I’m gonna go there and I actually love like that kind of secondary messaging down there because like john you were saying it kind of it makes it idiot proof you know what I mean like you know what you’re getting out of it oh I can use yeah it helps them get the best out of it too right which is critical you talk about, you had mentioned earlier that you helped get the first sale.

It’s kind of up to the product to get the second, third, and fourth sale. Well, I can see how this would help aid that second, third, and fourth sale because you’re getting the optimal use case out of it, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And when on the shelf, right, with McCormick’s and with, you know, just generic red pepper flakes or whatever, right, this is gonna, it’s gonna stick out.

Differentiating from competitors and catching consumers’ attention 


Like backyard barbecue, I want to have a backyard barbecue. I think I need that. Yeah, exactly. Seasoning, you know that that is something you’re supposed to put on seafood. You could put it on a piece of chicken if it was just called like, you know, lemon pepper, you know, sweet seasoning or something.

And you try it on a piece of chicken and maybe it’d be all right, but it wouldn’t be great. You put it on a piece of fish and now all of a sudden, it’s like, oh, now that is something I don’t want to come back for. And for the listeners, in case you didn’t see the sliders, pay close enough attention, it’s seasoning.


That’s right, yeah. Yeah, with some wave design in there. We wanted to really differentiate each of the individual varieties. A little plug for the client and for you guys to know that Chef Henry’s secret, the one in the blue there.


Absolutely awesome best season I’ve ever had I use it all the time okay what’s it made out of you’ll never huh what are the what’s the ingredients there is something that’s unusual I don’t know well it’s going to be on the greenery’s panel yeah there’s oregano and a couple different combinations not something you knew there’s Mexican sage in there too it just gives steaks and stuff such a it’s unbelievable oh yeah we order it constantly have it in my rave I have bottles of it everywhere.

The second step was around like the strategic territory, right?

And is that something that your team is coming to the table with like some unique insights to try to like land like something like that big idea or they, the client usually have it?


Occasionally a client will have something that they want to do in particular, but generally that’s on us. Yeah. Especially with smaller clients or more startup clients or people that are not already succeeding. You know, sometimes clients come to us, and they just want to tick the needle up a little bit.

But a lot of times people come to us when… Bigger clients want a small, just make me look good. Yeah. Marketing job.

But especially when it’s a smaller client or someone whose product is really not succeeding, they rely on us to help come up with some of that strategy.

And a lot of that is about how to take that positioning that either they don’t have that we develop with them or that they already have in mind and figure out how to best communicate that, like on those seasonings where we added that by Chef Henry’s to give that kind of ethos.

I like to think of, I went to school for English and philosophy, so I had a lot of classes, a lot of education on rhetorical speaking, rhetorical communication, and using rhetoric in speeches all about trying to convince someone of of a point, basically trying to persuade someone over to your way of thinking.

And that’s essentially what package design is doing. It’s saying, hey, let me convince you that my product is the best thing on shelf.

So, a lot of the same techniques are useful in package design as are in any kind of rhetorical speech.


So I like to think of different points that we’re including on a package as the classic pathos, logos, and ethos.

Your emotional appeals, which I kind of in food include like the gut reaction which is oftentimes appetite appeal it’s that just kind of natural like oh that makes me hungry that’s under the which I can consider that pathos kind of the emotional appeal and they were again pathos logos and ethos so pathos is your emotional appeal which is either like oh that’s something I feel good about like if you see on a package you know, farm-raised, pasture-raised chickens or something. Like, oh, okay, I feel good about that.

Pathos, Logos, and Ethos: Appeals in Package Design 


Yeah, or this. Fighting hope may never taste as good because…

They give to orphans in Africa yeah it’s hard it’s harder to see on this screen because it’s white on yellow in this on this first one um but yeah it says providing hope never tasted so good and then that story is expanded on the back where the owner of this brand has uh he builds orphanages in Mozambique so it’s that’s kind of your pathos yeah it’s like okay i feel good about buying from this brand or sustainability messages for example are a pathos appeal sure it’s like, yeah, I’m happy to buy this brand. I’m happy to support that.


Things like small batch or homemade can oftentimes be that too.

Like I’m helping a small company. I’m not helping a major corporation.


Logos is those logical appeals like low fat or things like keto friendly, no high fructose corn syrup, things like, okay, I get why this is actually going to be something I want to have based on what I know, based on knowledge. Practical.

Yeah, exactly. Maybe the speed at which like a caffeine or energy enhancing ingredient kick in.

Or like this cooks quickly, you know, this pizza is made in four to five minutes.

Or functional messaging. Yeah, exactly.

And then ethos is kind of a little bit some of the more ambiguous thing, but that’s like establishing your reliability.

Like that’s kind of the reason to believe like, why should I trust what you’re saying?

And some of that is like that by Chef Henry, like, okay, so I get like, okay, this is coming from a chef, like they’ve curated these ingredients or that’s oftentimes, I think a lot of brands will include this without really knowing why, but like, you’ll see like established 1975, that’s an ethos statement.

It’s like, okay, I’ve been around for a long time.

Kind of like your firm, right? Been around since, you know, three generations. They must know a thing or two. Exactly. Yeah. That’s an appeal to that ethos.

Instinct, credibility, or trust factor. Social proof too. The same thing. I love that. Yeah, we’re getting a great social media soundbite out of that. That’s for sure.

Understanding Client Goals and Brand Persona 


So back to here, the creative strategy is after you figure it out, you know, we’ve had our meeting with the client. We’ve really asked a lot of probing questions. Just informally find out where do they want to be in five years?

How do they feel about their brand? What do they want? What kind of persona do they have personally? Do they want to be part of the brand themselves personally? Or are they planning on just building it and selling it, you know, to some big company shortly?

We kind of get all that background information because that will help drive, you know, a good positioning for them, get them in a good place. So, then we develop the position, which we already talked about. Once we know where we want to be, like, here is the goal.


Here’s we want to end up here’s our destination then creative strategy is like what are all the elements you can use on the packaging to get there you know to convince people and that’s the creative strategy part so it’s like we use let me jump in there could you elaborate on what are the elements of the package i feel like we could unpack that a little bit okay well there’s the logo the feel of the package is it is it the physical the physical feel no like that pathos element like when you look at it what is the first thing like oh that’s a really high-end product or like oh that’s a really value-oriented product I’m getting a lot for my money that’s right yeah like oh that must be organic even though you can’t say organic we can look organic we can look like we belong in whole foods even if the.


Nutrition facts the ingredients don’t necessarily support that we don’t have the ability to put a organic bug on there or a nun when I say bug I mean a little icon the FDA standards to actually put but we can certainly make it look organic and apply that you know without them having to pay and that’s what I mean when we say the feel of your of your gotcha so the logo the feel are there other elements that words that go on it I’m sure any elements on the package and when we say when we talk about later in the in this of the five core needs that you have to develop the package we include creative linguistics which is actually a term that we got when the marketing manager of Kellogg’s came to us and asked for some.


What she called linguistic creativity. They didn’t actually want to do anything on their package design. They were just asking us for copywriting help essentially to come up with the right words and statements that they could use.


And then we liked that term so much, linguistic creativity, that we kind of co-opted it and flipped it around and called it creative linguistics rather than just calling it copywriting because we felt like that almost undervalues it.

Whereas the words that you’re including on the package are so critical, they really need to be brief and pithy and poignant and make a strong point without expanding a lot because you obviously don’t have the space, especially in the front of a package.

Or the attention span. Right. So, yeah, exactly.

You really have like four to six seconds to convince someone to at least be interested enough to pick up your product on shelf.

So, we include that as part of the creative process just as much as the feel and the design and the appetite appeal, the creative linguistics. The messaging is huge.

Importance of Messaging and Identity in Package Design 


It’s super important. Yeah. Yeah, and that even includes, how does a word sound?

Is it a soft sound? Is it, you know, depending on what your product is, you don’t want a crunchy sounding word if you’re describing something on a very smooth, you know, soft product, like a cheeseball bite or something, you know, you don’t want to use… Yeah, or even something very aggressive. Like, you wouldn’t come out with, like.


Kraken yogurt or something, you know, it’s, it kind of has a strange kind of counterintuitive and it ultimately all comes back to that audience persona too. Right. If it’s yogurt for the alpha male, maybe Kraken works good.


But if we’re trying to appeal to the nuclear family and, and sometimes going super, super out there can be the quarter courier positioning, positioning like this is not a client of ours but it’s you know kind of big right now is the water brand liquid death right you know they obviously that’s their whole thing is being very counter to what you would assume about water you know they their liquid death is super obviously like dangerous sounding their whole theme is like looking like it’s some kind of toxic chemical and then it turns out it’s just sparking water but it but it is it’s interesting that they they’ve gone completely the opposite angle but that is their whole positioning is going in that opposite direction yeah they zagged yeah out exactly it can occasionally work but can only if you yeah you know I can’t imagine it would work for many things other than you know a plain sparkling water where you don’t really have to explain the product in any kind of way on number three on identity we put say on identity rather than logo development um right because it really incorporates everything the logo is just part of it but it’s the feel of the package the color of the background and with logo as part of your identity that goes kind of beyond your logo and is at the same time kind of part of it we almost always like to include what we call a positioning line some people say.


A tagline or a slogan but we think of those as kind of separately they can exist on their own whereas a positioning line is almost always locked to your logo and it’s just something that is a really like maybe it’s five to maybe seven words max it starts to get a little long that is an encapsulation of as much of your positioning as we can get in a really short pithy single statement three to five words yeah that’s going to stick with your logo so you know we love a brand where the brand name is going to carry a lot of weight on its own, like we have a we worked with a client where their brand name that we came up with for them was this is the example, was Same Day Filet. It was a frozen fish product.

So, its kind of it already starts to do a lot of work just with that brand name. But then we included the positioning line.


Cleaned and flash frozen in hours to kind of further encapsulate like what is different about this what’s the positioning of this and it was that these fillets you know they were caught they were frozen on the boat before they even made it back to shore so that you’re getting and it and then retained frozen that entire time so you’re getting it as fresh as it could possibly be, so we always like to include a positioning line even on something where the brand name is doing a lot of weight, but especially on things where they’re not like if your brand is called, Douglas’s or something like that, that’s your brand.

You could be, you know, Douglas’s could be selling, you know, pizzas or it could be selling air fresheners and there’s no way to know.

So having that positioning line there locked to the logo, if you say Douglas’s, you know, fine wood fired pizzas or something, your kind of immediately get a sense of what you’re doing every time you see that logo and that positioning line just lives with it.

If we get the opportunity to help the client come up with the logo name, which I’d say we do, what percent, like 70% maybe? Probably about that.

I think it’s a lot better because we make sure that the logo then does some heavy lifting. Yeah, the name self-communicates.


Right, exactly. Communicating something good. And sometimes you can really get away, you could do some powerful things with a logo like that Yummy Health.

Do I even have Yummy Health on there? You do have it on here.

The naming is huge. huge. I’ve been involved in a few of those projects myself.

And the amount of work, by the way, that can go into choosing the right name can be pretty tremendous.

As in, I love that you drew the distinction, Paul, about you shy away from calling things logo and you refer to it as identity.


You know, all true brand marketers know the amount of work that goes into a visual identity or a logo or color scheme or fonts can be a tremendous amount of work, you know, that’s often overlooked by folks that try to do it themselves.

And that can ultimately cost them.

Importance of Identity in Logo and Package Design 


Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, the identity is so important and so intrinsic to your end product that your consumer is going to see that it used to be, you know, back in the day, you know, even right around where I started about 10 years ago, but even before that, especially where logo design was often done in isolation.

Isolation, you know, that would be like the first step is like, okay, create the logo. Let’s run that up the ladder. Let’s get approval from everyone on the logo.

And then let’s develop the package design.


And what we’ve realized, like I said, about 10 years ago and going forward is we almost never do that anymore because that is so key as your identity, not just as a logo in isolation, that when you develop the logo on its own and then go to try to create a package design, design, you’re kind of creating these artificial constraints on yourself, where now you have to design a package around a logo. You have to make a package that’s going to fit an already established logo.

That looks like a slug. It looks like, drop logo here, you know, and like could be anybody’s Yeah. You’ve already established, you know, cut, you know, is it a really rigid font?

Is it a soft font? Is it using serifs or not using serifs?

You know, is it encapsulated in some kind of shape, some kind of marquee shape, or is it in a circle? Is it in an oval? Is it a very vertical or horizontal logo?

And then you go to work on the package design and you’re like, okay, now I have to figure out, I have got colors established.

I’ve kind of got a look established already that I need to work into the package design.


And it just doesn’t make sense to do it that way. We’ve realized that the identity is so core to the package design that it really needs to be developed all at once.

So, we create our packages and our logos all as a cohesive whole. This is an example of identity I put this slide in as opposed to the logo this is made by you know cheese butter this client it’s the same client and it’s this is a different name this is by chef henry but you can tell that the look is if the you saw these it’s all in the same family and cheese butter is also a third product line they have, they all have a kind of a cohesive feel to them. It’s a branded house, I believe, right?


So, you can tell they all have these little icons in the background.


And, you know, that’s there, it’s more than just the name. This is the name is very small. And here, the logo, Cheesebutt is there. These are sub-branded Cheesebutt Bites.


But the feel is cohesive. And I see you made that conscious decision actually to minimize the logo go and emphasize what the product is yeah exactly because cheese butter was their original product, and it was also their brand name so that’s the thing that has the registration on it and it was exactly what the original product was that product was cheese butter it was a butter and cheese mixture that was that was actually the product I was referencing earlier that’s kind of confusing how do you like spreadable because it yeah the butter kind of congeals when it’s cold and it’s refrigerated,

So, you have to melt it. And then the cheese melts in with the butter and it becomes a really great product. This is still under the cheese butter brand, but there’s no butter involved in here at all. This is purely a seasoned cheese with inclusions.

So, we wanted to minimize cheese butter. We still wanted the branding on there, but we wanted this to really kind of stand on its own as a cheese ball bite, because it’s like your traditional cheese ball that you would have as a centerpiece at a party or something, you know, full of like fruits and nuts and things like that.

But smaller, miniature, bite-sized, you know, a blend of cheese is really robust inclusions.

So, we wanted to say, you know, get people the idea of like, okay, you know, it’s by cheese butter, but there’s no butter in here.

This is a, think of this as a cheese ball, but as a bite.


I’m getting hungry, guys. Well, we just act right now. If you want a snack, definitely recommend checking them out. If you got any of these on hand, make sure you leave some behind.


Four of these things are great for like staving off the hunger.

This also is an example of, I mean, the client had just the pure, just the cheese balls, different flavors.


He had five flavors, whatever. But we looked at them too and said, this could be big. This could be huge because it’s a little portable pack. Tear off, you could take them with you. it’s a great stave off the hunger if your dinner’s running late or whatever and you take them on the road with you camping whatever uh I said this is so I said to him gee you know could you combine put some little meat in there like a beef jerky in with the cheese oh have a charcuterie collection yeah because charcuterie is so big right now that’s very trendy right now charcuterie plates and cheeseboard plates we always keep an eye on what are what’s trending well maybe we should you talk about that a little bit sure yeah trend analysis and is that simply just you know like first person what you see when you’re out there or is there more to it it’s fairly osmosis space just kind of being in this space seeing what people are talking about you know if things are big enough online we’re gonna encounter them and that’s like the case with charcuterie plates and cheeseboard plates and things like that where those are really kind of they’re kind of hot right So the idea of being able to give people an opportunity to, you know, have your easy at home charcuterie plate where all you have to do is buy this package, open it up and dump it out and boom, you’ve got a charcuterie plate ready to go.

Normally there, you know, a pretty expensive things like high end restaurants and things like that.


We wanted to us said to the client like hey this is really big right now I think you have the capability of doing this why don’t you give it a try and see how it comes out and it turned out great he had to buy one piece of equipment for it but it ended up being worth it that was hugely successful that the charcuterie option and uh and it became one of the better selling of the of the products he also said cheese boards where you don’t have the meat there’s a lot of people that don’t eat meat or don’t want to but you’ve got fruit and nuts I mean of which cheese is a great combination so you see like on the right on the blue in there those are cheese boards there’s fruits and nuts that go with them and they’re in a pack they’re in a separate little thing so it’s really great it gives you a nice a more full snack the cheese balls themselves or you have to go online and buy some because once you have try them you’ll always buy them let’s talk about, getting on the shelf and standing out on the shelf. Sure.

So, what advice can you give aspiring food and beverage CPG creators, makers?

Think small business now. I’ll tell you the thing that nobody will tell you.

The stores won’t tell you.

You’re going to get it here, folks, on the Niche Marketing Podcast.


What’s here, Paul? We can’t wait. The stores will tell you trying to get your product into a store and it’s a struggle.

You can’t get it in. and they won’t put it in a good spot. They tell you, oh, we’ve got no room for you right now. We’re already filled up with this product. Sorry, and whatever. What they’re not telling you is, like, they won’t ever say you have an ugly baby.

The Importance of Appealing Store Shelves 


It’s a lot of the reason these stores want to make their store look good and their shelves look good.

These different category managers in the stores, they want their store to shine.

And if your product doesn’t look good, they’re not going to tell you.

They’re not going to tell you that. Whoa. It’s not going to give you the space.

So that’s really interesting on a number of levels, right? I mean, I think the general premise of, okay, we want the packaging to look good, that’s not a surprise, right?

But the fact that a buyer is thinking aesthetically about how their store looks at the collective whole, literally how the visual of their shelves present, and that they might make a decision on what products to stock simply based on how you appear on their shelves amongst the other products they have, is really interesting.

And I think it’s worth repeating at this point that, you know, this is from decades of experience that you guys have.



Decades of experience have shown that the buyers want their shelves to look as good as possible. I’ll show you one here. The Seabest, the left-hand side is the poor.

They had that. The product did not change. So, they had that. They had the shrimp. They had like five products they were trying to get in the Northeast quarter up and down the state. We only work in the U.S. market. We don’t really do Canada and any other countries. Anyway, they said, well, we can’t get into, you know, we don’t know what’s wrong.

We put restaurant quality really big on the package and we can’t get on the shelves.

They just don’t want our product. We said, well, you know, I think we see the problem.

Ugly baby. Ugly baby.


Which we didn’t tell them, we will show them, you know, there’s a difference.

So instead of saying restaurant quality, we made a package of design that looked like a cool boutique type of restaurant.

We made the logo more of like a signage. Like you’d see like a seafood restaurant sign.

We put restaurant quality is much smaller.

So the word didn’t have to be big. It just had to have the right feel.

Yeah, we have a little seascape in the top, almost like, you know, you’re sitting out on the patio of a seafood restaurant. You’re looking out on the water.

It’s plated up like it would be in a restaurant.

You know, very clean table like you would have at like a higher end restaurant, almost kind of a white tablecloth thing to basically, if we’re going back to that logos, pathos, ethos thing, that restaurant quality really wants to be a pathos.

It wants to be the feel of restaurant quality. Right.


They almost treated it like it was a logos argument like practical yeah they wrote the word restaurant quality and we’re hoping that that kind of gets to people but that’s it really can’t be a logical thing restaurant quality is like what does that even really technically mean that can be subjective yeah it’s more of a feel so you need to treat it like it’s something that’s pathos that’s a feel so that’s what we transferred it to on the new design we did editorial plate type and there’s some you know all little subtle things but putting that plate in an angle instead of just straight on giving it an editorial kind of like recipe book type feel to it just all the little things work together so they went from five they got all the five products in the stores all over the east coast and uh and then they just like Because of that success, and the stores were buying the stuff, they added 39 products.

Success Story: How a Design Change Led to Increased Shelf Space 


They didn’t add 39. They totaled 39.

So it was 39 months, seven, whatever it is.

Well done, Dylan. So a lot of other products. So really put them on the map.

That was a fun success story and a fun project. And the product didn’t change.


And any other advice? Because I know from the other interviews we’ve started to do in this niche, how critical this getting on the damn shelf is and how hard it is.

So and I know you guys are designers that’s your focus but any other just inside baseball inside knowledge about how to get on a shelf well it’s this is a little outside of package design but it is something that we almost always do with all of our clients is it’s important to have a really effective sell sheet that’s kind of your main intro piece of material when you’re going to a buyer in a store because I mean it’s great if you can get a trade show and the buyers the chain buyers are walking around.


They may be impressed, whatever, but they’re going to forget.

You got to have a good sell sheet that’s going to remind them.

And so much is also done digitally these days and telecommunications and things like that, where it’s awesome if you can get an in-person meeting, you know, actually in front of a store buyer and let them try the product and have a conversation like that.

But so often- They usually always try the product, and you just mail it to them, they’ll taste it. But so often you can’t get an in-person meeting, or you need an in to even get to that point.

And that’s where the sell sheet comes in, where when we develop a sell sheet, it’s using a lot of the same components as the package design.

Obviously, the look of the brand is still the same. We’re showcasing the actual product and the package of the product on that sell sheet.

But the communication is tweaked a little bit because now it’s not a story of.


This is why you as a consumer are going to really enjoy this product.

Now it’s a story of, this is why this is going to be so successful in your store shelves.

This is why your consumers are going to like this. And this is what it’s going to do for your store.

And telling that story in a really, in a concise space, just like we do really concise communications on a package face is so critical because now we’re shifting who we’re selling to, but we’re still doing that that same cell.


Right. Totally. So can you give us some tips on how to appeal to those buyers on those sell sheets?

Tips for Appealing to Buyers on Sell Sheets 


Yeah. So, one thing you can do is, is if you have something that’s targeted a specific demographic, that’s something you could speak to. If you have something that’s targeting something that’s trendy, like the charcuterie plates and things like that, store buyers are also super involved with like, what is hot right now, because they want to stock those things.

So, they’ll you know if charcuterie plates, and cheese boards are hot right now they will know that so if you can speak to that and kind of nudge them in that direction like hey look, we have something that’s really popular right now or sourdough is really big right now you know if you have something like a sourdough component or you’re utilizing fermentation that can be something you kind of nudge them in direction of like hey this is this is trendy right now or in the same way as you would tell a consumer like, hey, this is why I’m so unique, talking to the buyer about, this is why you don’t have anything else like me on the shelf. Here are the unique facets.

You probably don’t have anything else that’s a seasoning that’s as smoky as this seasoning.

The smokiness of this seasoning is at least worth you are giving a try because this is really going to be something that people are looking for right now. Now, smoky flavors are really popular right now, and there’s not a good option in the dry seasoning section.

People have to go to liquid smoke and things like that. But here, I’ve got something different.

Include me on the shelf. And all of a sudden, now people will be in your seasoning aisle when they wouldn’t necessarily be if they’re looking for something that has smokiness.


Or make the store look good, make that store’s category look good by being an attractive thing that maybe some other store, the next store down the road, doesn’t have. So that that’s important.

And, um, here’s an example of, of that.

You know, if you were in a grocery store and this is the, uh, you know, the area, the bait, the in-store bake area and stuff, and there’s a product and they just have a little label on here and it’s a big clamshell and all of the food looks basically the same.

It’s some kind of pastry with a bunch of white icing on it. Clamshell that people aren’t aware is just, is that plastic enclosure?

Yeah, sure. There’s just a sticker on here that holds a chut and tamper resistant.

And we said, well, you know, you don’t, it’s not giving something different.

So we said, yeah, it’s not making the store look particularly good.

This is, this is in the in-store bake section. So, it’s like.

Enhancing the Packaging to Make It Special 


The store is kind of putting its, you know, trying to present it like it’s unique to that store.

Like, you know, it’s something that they’re putting out there.

And it’s really not looking like anything special with just in a plain clamshell, a little sticker on there.

So, we said, let’s really make this, let’s answer the questions that consumers have and really make this something special.

Let’s, you know, it’s still going to be in the clamshells. They want to change that.

They’d have to change their equipment and everything. thing but let’s get a cardboard sleeve on there so we have some more space to communicate about the product like a window on the sleeve so you can still see that it doesn’t block it but what is the main stumbling block that people have with picking up a pastry because all the pastries they had like at least a dozen different kinds of pastries and they basically all look the same top down you know they look like you’ve got a white glazed icing and then you have a product name.

So, the question is, what’s in it? What does it look like? What am I actually going to experience?

So, including the cross section cut of the pastry as an image on there to give people an idea of like, look, this is the amount of filling.

This is kind of the robustness of the filling here, the lemon or the raspberry or things like that, as well as giving it a little bit more of a creative name, a little bit something more interesting, like wildly pecan.


Okay. What does What was that, Paul? Yeah, it says wildly pecan Danish instead of just saying pecan Danish or cheese Danish.

Just to give it a little bit of more of a fun twist, a little flair.

Yeah, exactly. That really helped enhance it and make it more fun and indulgent. Gives the brand some personality as well, right? Exactly, yeah, which is something they were really lacking before.

That’s also why we completely converted the logo into that identity, into something that was, you know, he named it after himself, Jay Skinner.

And if you’re going to name it after yourself, give it a little personality.

You know, make it look more like it’s his actual signature. Who the hell is Jay Skinner?

Right. Right. So let’s give him a voice. Yeah.

And if you’re going to present yourself as a baker, then get some personality in here so I can believe in you as the baker of these products.

I love it. We only have about five minutes left, guys. And so, with the last couple minutes, could you show us any other designs that you think have a specific story behind them that would be valuable to us aspiring food and beverage CPG product launchers? Okay.

You want to do sandwich things? That’s a pretty fun one. All right.

Successful positioning of Bimbo Bakeries’ Burger First in Canada 


This will be an example of when you do successful positioning, and products are positioned right and the rest of it, it can be very successful.

This was a product they had, well, this slide will tell it.

Bimbo Bakeries was the largest bakery in the world. But up in Canada, they had a product called Burger First. Yes. Just a thin.

So Burger First, which was like, it was doing okay. Bimbo is mostly in the US, and you would know it mostly by its brand names not by Bimbo they have one brand that’s called Bimbo, but they also own at least half the bread aisle they’re Arnold they’re Stroman they’re Thomas’s English muffins they’re huge in the bread aisle but everything is branded something else yeah wow Entenmann shout out to local company Entenmann at least they were local but owned by Bimbo Bakeries USA, located out in Horsham and then out in Texas as well, and then ultimately owned by a company in Mexico City.

Yeah, so they eat up all the little guys.

But this was one of their products under their brand Arnold, and it was only in Canada. It was called Burger First, and it was doing middling.

So, they came to us and said, hey, we want to launch this in the US, but it’s not doing great in Canada. Can you help us fix it?

Can you help us make it something that’s really going to be successful.

We worked with a brand manager, kind of brainstormed together.


And she liked our creativity. We said, let’s give it a healthy positioning.

I’ll call it sandwich thins. Because the whole point of it is it’s a very, very thin like bread substitute, like bun substitute, basically.

I’m sure you’ve probably seen these products all over the place.

Now, these were the first ones that ever came out.

So, they started basically a new category. So that’s what the package basically looked like.


Hardly any advertising they didn’t put any advertising behind it was just the packaging yeah it’s rare that we can and they had a little bit of like a positioning lines on you know some point of sale so this was the main thing that positioning we created a new shape to help you change yours that’s really smart this is a diet food we’re not saying but you know we change the shape to help you out it’s really good guys that’s a really clever and it was hugely successful It was, it really hit the market of what people were looking for.

Huge success: 89 million to 250 million in sales


It was not, you know, it wasn’t body shaming. It wasn’t like saying like, you need to cut down on your calories or anything like that.

It was just, yeah, just a subtle message of, hey, you know, if you’re looking to, you can still have your burger, you still have your sandwich.


That’s another thing. Instead of positioning it for burgers, which are a little bit more of an unhealthy thing, we moved to sandwiches.

The appetite appeal we showed was a turkey sandwich with some lettuce and tomato, more healthy direction.

Direction so for people that are looking certain people wanted a burger on it I’m like goes against the positioning right a little bit they did it with a burger but then i said like let’s at least do one variety with the turkey sandwich you know get be a little more healthy and in that then they switched everything and got didn’t put burgers on any of them switched all the healthy sandwiches but it went to 89 million in the very first year just on the East Coast, after that, they rolled it out to the West Coast, same product, just rolled it out to the West Coast and went up to 250 million.

Yeah. And then inspired, yeah, there’s, you know, now the now thin buns are a whole category that then this was the first, you know, venture into that.

Every company makes a thin bun of some kind. Yeah.

That’s a fantastic success story and a great one to end on. I could chat with you guys all day. This was a lot of fun.


I got 50 slides here. Well, so for somebody that wants to get in touch with you and get the rest of the 50-slide presentation, Paul, how do they get in touch with you guys?

Yeah, so our website is a great place to go as kind of a first stop.

It’s, D-E-P-E-R-S-I-C-O.

I know we’re a little bit of a complicated name. It’s on the screen, too. Yeah.

And from there, you can email Paul directly, paul at

You can email me, james at

And you can call us directly. And we pride ourselves on, we’re the ones who answer the phone.

We’re the one who’s responded to the email. We’re your first point of contact.

You know, we’ll do the designs with artists and think, you know, copywriters and things like that behind the scenes.

But we want to be involved in every one of our projects.

We don’t want to pass you off to some account manager or something like that.

So you reach out to us and you get us directly.

And we’ll be the ones who reach back out to you. We’ll have those conversations.

We’ll work with you through the whole product.

Importance of Owner-Operator Account Management Model 


Don’t pass people off to an account manager. We used to do that. Yeah.

We don’t do that anymore. As someone that… Directly. Yeah, as someone that represents almost 300 different marketing agencies, I can say with certainty that that owner-operator account management model makes a massive difference in customer satisfaction and ultimately the output.

So that’s fantastic, guys. And that phone number there is my actual personal, my desk phone.

So, but if you call it and just leave a message because I could be on the phone with another.

We do a lot of stuff on screen. And if you call, you’ll talk to both of us because our desks actually are butted up right against each other and the phone sits right in the middle.

So, someone calls us, we hit speaker and we’re both talking to them.

So, you always get both of us.

Two for one deal. We’re on screen sharing and talking.

I can speak from first person experience. That’s how you guys operate.

Well, thanks so much, guys. We’re excited that you came and gave us all a primer.

And thanks so much. We’ll talk to you. We’ll see you soon on the next episode of the Niche Marketing